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'Hated' Races
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Spiffy Fox
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 5:17 pm    Post subject: 'Hated' Races Reply with quote

I was just curious if Annakolia has an official standing on 'hated' or normally evil races, such as drow, half-chromatic-dragons, half-fiends, etc.? I just wanted to be sure, how people should react? Currently it seems very lax for them, while this is alright if it's the intention, I find, when playing one myself, the controversy and initial distrust/fear/hatred tends to be alot of fun to RP with.
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Dark-Soul
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I expected to encounter more intolerance when playing dark-fire myself but he was almost instantly accepted the only person who even showed some mistrust really was you Spiffy.

And as Valas only Olias showed true mistrust and non acceptance of my Drow with the exception of Cherry and Will (Barry and Charissa) but I made them dislike me lol, but now Will and Valas are friends and will make amends with Cherry if ever I find her on lol, Anarielle/Olias may be a different matter.

*thinks* No pvp without a Dms supervision......Does that count if the DM is doing the PvP Twisted Evil
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


Why would a group of 'adventurers' necessarilly mistrust anyone of 'like mind' they meet upon the road - surely any 'truely evil' individual would have had his/her card marked before they arrived! Smile

I think it's unlikely (and a little unrealistic) to expect people to react badly to say (for example) a drow on the surface (who said there WAS an 'Underdark' anyway?) who could not have survived alone if of the 'dogmatised' drow creed.

Now, a dragon, or a giant, wolfman, wraith or skeleton undead - that's another matter! Laughing

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Dark-Soul
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DF is a Dragon and most folk think he's there best friend *sigh*, some people are so gullible at times Twisted Evil . lol.
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Dha'Kron
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dark-Soul wrote:
DF is a Dragon and most folk think he's there best friend *sigh*, some people are so gullible at times Twisted Evil . lol.

Aww but he's a nice dragon *pets him between the horns*
Valinor didn't trust him right away (and still doesn't fully - although he kinda proved himself by not leaving us all to rot in the dungeon) it was the reason he was usually in bear form between DF and our fragile mage, Luna Razz
Besides if he reacts to winged people (like to Lafiel) everyone else will just shrug it off as everyday business, not to mention Sidonia's is full of winged buggers, so he just figures everything breeds with EVERYTHING in this very strange land... he honestly wouldn't even be so surprised to come across a wolf-rabbit hybrid in Annakolia, or a Fox-Cow half-breed Razz
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Luna and Razxiel Dark-Fire are friends, he was on edge due to so many new faces, and a certain Shifter who tormented him by using Dragon Form.
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Spiffy Fox
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*grin* It'd be good to know I suppose, what the general take on those races are... I'm not sure if it'd fit.. but I do enjoy a good bit of mistrust and fear where it makes sense like this.
Ie. Just because the orc over yonder is a PC, doesn't mean one should take well to them, but I suppose that goes into the aspect of PvP again...

Embarassed Though, we'll not go there... just basic reactions?
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think some of this was covered in a previous thread...*clicks back to OOC Character - not enough hatred against drow* Yep, there it is. Riendlen wrote:

Quote:
i play drow character and i have met practically no hatred at all.. well, very little...as i think drows shouldnt even be let in town and no one should actually "just make friends" with them without good reason...

Again, I think the reaction to a "hated race" is purely a pc choice, hopefully informed by the character's upbringing, background, and personality.

Perhaps it is the nature of the game to be accepting of other races and mixes because we all just want to have fun. I think most people play their own version of a misfit, whatever that means to them. There are numerous literary instances of likeable and trusted drow, half-drow, giants, dragon-kind, etc. And players tend to play what they know.

Finally, For my own part, I try to play characters that see the world from their own honorable and moral point of view.
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Dha'Kron
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually from what i've seen most of the players that play an "outsider/misfit" are kind of expecting to be treated with mistrust (the whole Drizzt Do'Urden looking for acceptance thing, and getting through a lot of trouble before actually achieving it, or even never achieving it except from their closest friends).
But it comes down a lot to the world setting too, which is partly what Fox is asking, how does the "general" world population respond to them (aka the NPCs)
If not even a NPC looks twice at a scaled thing with wings or a dragonhead passing through their streets then why the heck should a PC (everyone knows PCs are much more badass then ANY NPC, hence even more immune to any awe or fear factor then any NPC Razz )
I've seen the same on other PWs that allow "special" characters... of course my NPCs always give them a hard time... well some at least... reactions get altered for the sake of the PCs... *recalls a certain winged thing walking through a capitol that should've probably been shot or at the very least escorted out of town or captured*
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, all I can tell you for certain is that it seems to me the citizens are somewhat used to seeing some mage come through and summon some unpleasant creature or a half-dragon and so on these days. I mean, they live in a world surrounded with so much magic.

Now, personally, Nazo always felt just a bit of hatred towards the drow (of course) but was carefully taught how to live with it. While a bit cynical, always expecting the drow to require payment, that sort of thing, he will, noneteless get along with the drow when necessary having had to do so on occasion back home (even the drow aren't fond of having their homes taken over by a bunch of mortal hating demons.) *shrugs* I guess that means you might get a sort of cold shoulder from him at least. But, hatred? Nothing on the surface anyway.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dha'Kron wrote:
But it comes down a lot to the world setting too, which is partly what Fox is asking, how does the "general" world population respond to them (aka the NPCs)
If not even a NPC looks twice at a scaled thing with wings or a dragonhead passing through their streets then why the heck should a PC ...

The crux of the problem lies in 'playability' - for the most part (as I have attempted to point out on a number of occasions) ordinary 'citizens' DO NOT come in to contact with magical creature, magical displays, obviously mighty heroes or dragons walking the streets.

Admittedly there are SOME unique exceptions, a young (and small) red dragon for hire in Annnakol City, and our generally drunken white fond of the odd drink near the Fiesty Chicken - and it's true that these 'known' individuals may draw less of a glance from an NPC (though a number have run from the white).

However, should a balor, or a green forest dragon or a fire giant be seen near town, or even a horde of 'peaceable' undead you can be sure the civilians are going to react badly.

Dragon form PC's walking around Annakol SHOULD warrent a reaction from NPC's - for weeks Basil was convinced Dark Soul must always have worn that mask (it was inconceivable a 'dragon man' could be walking about), and 'winged humanoids' are very dificult to disguise, shapechanged individuals (animal or polymorphed forms) OUGHT to attract the attention of the guard.

With a DM available a 'realistic' NPC reaction could be staged, though it's possible being constantly chased from town could become tiresome to the player, but on a 'routine' basis only the PLAYER can RP the reaction of the populace - by having themselves 'chased' out of town.

In short armed and armourd individuals (other than town noteables or the guard), particularly those with a drawn weapon should consider themselves challenged and warned, those 'polymorphed' to (say) giant or panther form should consider themselve 'apprehended' by the guard, and those of 'unusual appearence' should consider what reaction their appearance would merit.

As an aside, it is indeed TRUE that a number of 'winged' notaries live very close to Annakol City - but they rarely walk abroad as such and are (to the general populace) somewhat reclusive - and perhaps they do not venture out often in a winged form.

The focus APPEARS to centre much upon a (perceived) requirement of the populace to 'hate' a dark skinned race of elf known as 'drow' - on Annakol 'drow' are exactly that - just 'dark skinned elves' as there are dark skinned humans - why should their skin colour incur hatred - the drow (even in Faerun which Annakol IS NOT) have done little to make the bulk of the populace fear or hate them.

While walking about the world of Annakol just how much 'magic activity' do you see? Is it prsent on every street corner? Is it in every bar? The temples, perhaps, are the commonest place for such effect, and here there is a 'context' for the effect and people can feel 'secure' - a display of fireballs and magic missiles in a city square are going to be somewhat more disquietening do you think?

In essence Annakol (and it's environs) are in a 'medieval/renaisance' transition, with unusual (but not uncommon) raceial mix and of course the 'populace' know about magic - but magic is within the realm of the 'fortunate few' and is less common in 'ordinary' society.

As such would be likely to be looked upon with some trepidation, particularly if the practioners were (apparently) unconcerned with those about them.

In a similar manner a store keeper is unlikely to serve those bearing arm in their hands (save out of fear of their lives) and are like to summon the guard when the armed individual withdraws; and a 'stray panther' is likely to be shot upon first sight by the guard, even the 'familiars' of mages or druids may draw undue attention where their nature is dangerous, otherworldly or strange.

A longer thread than I intended - but I'll summon up my thoughts upon 'hatred and NPC reactions in short.

In essence the populace are emancipated, and forward thinking - but settled in a lifestyle with which they are comfortable;l where something 'shakes' their settled life - PLAYERS should anticipate (role-play) a reaction and support (perhaps even request) DM / Admin interaction.

While their (NPC) world is not 'mundane' danger and magic (in esscence) surrounds them; as such anything that unsettles thier 'routine lives' and reminds them of the 'fragility' of their peaceful, routine existence must sem particularly frightening!

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nazo wrote:
Well, all I can tell you for certain is that it seems to me the citizens are somewhat used to seeing some mage come through and summon some unpleasant creature or a half-dragon and so on these days. I mean, they live in a world surrounded with so much magic.


It is PRECISELY the fact that magic surrounds them that displays of this nature would be (I believe) particularly frightening, reminding the 'common man' of his frailty and mortality.

I'm certain that the authorities within Annakol and Port City's are watching these events with trepidation, and considering how best their citizens may be protected.

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Laine Keiko



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would understand about the drawn weaponry and such; However, by nature, society as a whole tends more often than not to cower in fear and attempt to study what threatens them before taking action if no obvious present danger is at hand.

Stupid humans... Laughing
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laine Keiko wrote:
I would understand about the drawn weaponry and such; However, by nature, society as a whole tends more often than not to cower in fear and attempt to study what threatens them before taking action if no obvious present danger is at hand.

Stupid humans... Laughing


I accept that 'danger' and the 'unusual' draw the eye, but consider.

If I were to start throwing firebombs in Times Square (fireballs in Port City) - What would be the reaction?

If 'King Kong' and 'Godzilla' begin fighting in Chicago (polymorphed individual in Annakol City) - What would be the reaction?

If an escaped 'man eating tiger' was walking the streets of you own town (applicable anywhere) - What would be the reaction?

If a dozen zombies hopped on to your school bus (clearly absurd) - Just WHAT would be YOUR reaction? Shocked

Perception (like beauty) is in the 'eye of the beholder' and it would be quite wrong to expect every 'man in the street' to accept such events out of hand.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

as i said, you don't expect everyone to come out and relentlessy pursue something that may cost them their lives whereas if they don't, then nothing negative happens. I'd say it would depend on the circumstances. A dragonkin generally minding their own business may draw an eye, but not an immediate hostile reaction. The flinging of fireballs about however IS AN OBVIOUS DANGER. the mere existance of a creature or wizard in town wouldn't draw the hostilities, the first sign of actual danger would. And what about the so called "heroes" always running about? They'd easily overpower the commoners and the commoners know it, they are a danger, but they aren't being ran out of town or thrown upon a scaffold.
Oh, and it's "King Kong". Twisted Evil
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Demons, devils, and giant kind Giants, Trolls, and Ogres are at the center of more than a thousand years of wars in Annakolia. The giants are teamed with the demons and devils, their purpose, to kill all non-giant kind on the face of the world. This is basic general knowledge and at the heart of any reaction toward these type of persons by the authorities and populace. Dragons are not hated in this respect.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laine Keiko wrote:
And what about the so called "heroes" always running about? They'd easily overpower the commoners and the commoners know it, they are a danger, but they aren't being ran out of town or thrown upon a scaffold.
Oh, and it's "King Kong". Twisted Evil


Thanks Laine about King Laughing And for the rest.

While 'non-threatening' the populace will feel 'safe' with most things that 'resemble' their everyday experiences - it's 'behaviour' that (in the main) determines reaction.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dark-Soul wrote:
And as Valas only Olias showed true mistrust and non acceptance of my Drow with the exception of Cherry and Will (Barry and Charissa) but I made them dislike me lol, but now Will and Valas are friends and will make amends with Cherry if ever I find her on lol, Anarielle/Olias may be a different matter.

*thinks* No pvp without a Dms supervision......Does that count if the DM is doing the PvP Twisted Evil


True, Anarielle did show mistrust rather than outright hatred for Valas. She was told to stop stereotyping the drow by a half dragon humanoid with blue wings and an animated corpse of her husband as a battle companion, if I recall correctly. Someone who she had previously helped without question.

No CvC without DM supervision should apply especially if the player is also a DM.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clearly obvious differences are going to be noticed before subtleties . A winged humaniod is fairly obvious. Although, if the wings are covered with a cape (which I know isn't possible to do except by roleplay currently) then most people are too busy to notice.

Now, a human or half-breed what's-it traipsing around a city openly carrying an unsheathed sword should draw quite a bit of attention. Just imagine someone walking through town openly brandishing a loaded gun

I wish the AI of those city guards was better. That way they could really do enforcement, even when there's no DMs present. There's one roleplay server that I visited where my character was smashed by a city guard, no questions asked, for having her bow out in town. Shocked
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

charissa1066 wrote:
Clearly obvious differences are going to be noticed before subtlties. While a winged humaniod is fairly obvious. Although, if the wings are covered with a cape (which I know isn't possible to do except by roleplay currently) then most people are too busy to notice.

Now, an human or half-breed what's-it traipsing around a city openly carrying an unsheathed sword should draw quite a bit of attention. Just imagine someone walking through town openly brandishing a loaded gun

I wish the AI of those city guards better. That way they could really do enforcement, even when there's no DMs present. There's one roleplay server that I visited where my character was smashed by city guard, no questions asked, for having her bow out in town. Shocked


There are a few scripts on the vault for town guards warning PC's about weapons. I have passed some details on to Barry.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

charissa1066 wrote:
I wish the AI of those city guards better. That way they could really do enforcement, even when there's no DMs present. There's one roleplay server that I visited where my character was smashed by city guard, no questions asked, for having her bow out in town. Shocked

LOL, those are even worse then the DS guards then Razz Wink
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe the Nordoc module did that with the guards warning several times then attacking. That might also be a good place to look to, uh, borrow stuff from. ^_^

Anyway, I still agree with what Laine said. The general populace tends not to mob at the slightest provocation believe it or not. You have to REALLY push them. You all assume that the react far stronger than humans have shown in the past (and for the sake of gaming, we assume human nature in these respects is relatively universal since we have no halflings to ask.) In fact, I say that if they saw one giant walking through town, but no more, they would run to their homes and bolt the doors (never occuring to them the giant can break it like a toothpick.) They will NOT run and grab their pitchforks and try to mob the thing. To put it simply, people are basically cowards. Back them into a corner and they will become a dangerous snarling animal, but, as long as there's a hole to retreat to, they will run like insane to get to it (ever seen the way a rabbit will run across the road at the peril of it's own life to get to it's home when a car goes by and all it had to do was hold still? It's not a rational decision, it's instinct.)

As Laine was saying, they will ignore anything that there is at all a chance they can get out of without danger to themselves. The general consensus being along the lines of "let someone else handle it, it's not my problem as long as it goes that way" so that that giant could actually walk up, eat Farmer Joe and then walk away and, so long as it stayed away from the others, everyone else is just going to come out blinking from their holes after it's all done, curse a few deities and in general make it everyone's fault but their own that such a thing could happen. If there's no actual danger to them all, they just won't act. Like I said, you have to back them into a corner. Of course, do that and you'd better watch out.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nazo wrote:
You all assume that the react far stronger than humans have shown in the past (and for the sake of gaming, we assume human nature in these respects is relatively universal since we have no halflings to ask.) In fact, I say that if they saw one giant walking through town, but no more, they would run to their homes and bolt the doors (never occuring to them the giant can break it like a toothpick.) They will NOT run and grab their pitchforks and try to mob the thing. To put it simply, people are basically cowards. Back them into a corner and they will become a dangerous snarling animal, but, as long as there's a hole to retreat to, they will run like insane to get to it (ever seen the way a rabbit will run across the road at the peril of it's own life to get to it's home when a car goes by and all it had to do was hold still? It's not a rational decision, it's instinct.)


This is where I am trying to bring this thread - to a realisation that there WILL be a reaction to 'out of mundane' events.

I completely agree that the populace would likely run, the guard too possibly in consternation that a 'giant' somehow passed the gate.

That brings us then to how 'players' have their characters 'behave' around NPC's.

Perhaps some thought may now be brought into how character actions may be perceived in the 'Realms of Annakol' and some consideration shown to their 'reputation' and to those poor, long suffering NPC's!

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I just wanted to be sure, how people should react? Currently it seems very lax for them, while this is alright if it's the intention, I find, when playing one myself, the controversy and initial distrust/fear/hatred tends to be alot of fun to RP with.


Hmmmmm, I had thought that Fox was speaking of PC reactions and not NPC. But, this has certainly been food for thought and fodder for more creative RP. Thanks everyone.

Quote:
If a dozen zombies hopped on to your school bus (clearly absurd - Just WHAT would be YOUR reaction?


Start singing "It's Alive!" from the musical Zombie Prom? Yep, it's a real musical. Look it up. he he

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flmngo should play a Bard. Wink
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flmngo wrote:
Quote:
If a dozen zombies hopped on to your school bus (clearly absurd - Just WHAT would be YOUR reaction?


Start singing "It's Alive!" from the musical Zombie Prom? Yep, it's a real musical. Look it up. he he

--Flmngo


Laughing And I retract my original 'zombie' example on the grounds that all school buses seem to be full of zombies - almost on a daily basis!! Razz
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, _I_ would try to do something (darn it,) but, everyone I knew back then would have fled out the emergency door if a group of zombies tried to get on the bus.

Personally though, my bus wasn't full of zombies. At least, I'm pretty certain that zombies don't like fire. All those gasses tend to combust and all. And those people smoked like chimneys.
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Spiffy Fox
DM/Contributor/Designer
DM/Contributor/Designer


Joined: 21 Sep 2004
Posts: 290
Location: New York

PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flmngo wrote:
Quote:
I just wanted to be sure, how people should react? Currently it seems very lax for them, while this is alright if it's the intention, I find, when playing one myself, the controversy and initial distrust/fear/hatred tends to be alot of fun to RP with.


Hmmmmm, I had thought that Fox was speaking of PC reactions and not NPC. But, this has certainly been food for thought and fodder for more creative RP. Thanks everyone.

Yep yep Smile both NPC and PC...
One of my recent, favorite, roleplaying scenes was being thrown in prison by NPCs
and called 'stupid little lizard' by PCs when I played a kobold. Razz

Sure, it sounds bad... but, it was all IC, and oh so much fun! Very Happy
I still get along very well with that group Wink Great players and DM.
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Dha'Kron
DM/Contributor/Designer
DM/Contributor/Designer


Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 166

PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spiffy Fox wrote:
Flmngo wrote:
Quote:
I just wanted to be sure, how people should react? Currently it seems very lax for them, while this is alright if it's the intention, I find, when playing one myself, the controversy and initial distrust/fear/hatred tends to be alot of fun to RP with.


Hmmmmm, I had thought that Fox was speaking of PC reactions and not NPC. But, this has certainly been food for thought and fodder for more creative RP. Thanks everyone.

Yep yep Smile both NPC and PC...
One of my recent, favorite, roleplaying scenes was being thrown in prison by NPCs
and called 'stupid little lizard' by PCs when I played a kobold. Razz

Sure, it sounds bad... but, it was all IC, and oh so much fun! Very Happy
I still get along very well with that group Wink Great players and DM.

Pfft, my NPCs threw lizard boy in jail too, although a different lizard boy Razz
Not to mention they clad you as a villain all over the place Twisted Evil
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Dark-Soul
Player
Player


Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 251
Location: England

PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Olias Stormcrow wrote:


True, Anarielle did show mistrust rather than outright hatred for Valas. She was told to stop stereotyping the drow by a half dragon humanoid with blue wings and an animated corpse of her husband as a battle companion, if I recall correctly. Someone who she had previously helped without question.

No CvC without DM supervision should apply especially if the player is also a DM.


*coughs* MISTRUST!!!!!!

I quote "Why don't you crawl back into the hole you crawled out of...."

That I believe was Anarielles second sentence for Valas, Mistrust? I think we need to re-evaluate your idea of Mistrust or at least Anarielles lol

And the CvC was a joke.
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Your tracks stopped with Dread, a killers steps you here Tread,
In the stillness before the Dawn, you will not see the morn,
For Dark-Soul has Come, and now your Doom has begun.
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